In this first episode of a new podcast published Thursday, California’s Democratic Gov. Gavin Newsom, an LGBTQ ally, broke with his party, saying that transgender athletes playing in female sports is “deeply unfair.”

“I think it’s an issue of fairness. I completely agree with you on that. It is an issue of fairness. It’s deeply unfair,” Newsom said on his podcast, “This is Gavin Newsom.”

Newsom’s comments came during a conversation with conservative activist Charlie Kirk, who leads conservative group Turning Point USA and played a critical role in garnering youth support for President Donald Trump in the 2024 election.

Newsom, sometimes viewed as a 2028 presidential hopeful, also agreed that the political ad that hurt former Vice President Kamala Harris the most in her presidential campaign was her previous support for providing taxpayer-funded gender transition-related medical care for detained immigrants and federal prisoners. Trump’s campaign had played back her remarks in a widely-circulated ad.

“She didn’t even react to it, which was even more devastating,” Newsom said.

Newsom also pointed to his own work in expanding LGBTQ rights, while referencing current law in the state of California that allows transgender athletes to participate in school sports that reflect the gender they identify with.

Newsom himself was a trailblazer in expanding LGBTQ rights: in 2004, as mayor of San Francisco, he allowed same-sex marriages to proceed even though they were not yet allowed nationwide.

He referenced that moment while discussing his alignment with Kirk’s views on transgender athletes in women’s sports.

“I’ve been a leader in the LGBTQ places, as, you know, back in 2004 [I] was marrying same sex couples. And I know we have [a] difference [of] opinion on marriage equality, and so I’ve been at this for years and years, I take a backseat to no one,” Newsom said, before discussing how he heard people talking about transgender athletes.

On the podcast, Newsom also called for compassion toward transgender individuals, even while discussing the sports issue: “There’s also humility and grace. You know, that, these poor people are more likely to commit suicide, have anxiety and depression, and the way that people talk down to vulnerable communities is an issue that I have a hard time with as well.”

LGBTQ rights groups criticized Newsom’s remarks, saying that they came amid national backlash to transgender individuals and their rights.

The Human Rights Campaign, a major national LGBTQ rights advocacy and lobbying group, said in a statement shared on social media that with discussions nationwide in legislatures about restricting same-sex marriage or transgender rights, “this is not a moment to sit politely in the face of authoritarian bullies or throw people under the bus for political posturing.”

“Singling out trans kids to score political points is never going to help someone pay their rent, keep Medicaid or get a job, but it will make it seem like Gov. Newsom believes our civil rights are up for grabs,” the organization wrote. “Californians – and ALL Americans – need leaders who have courage in their convictions, and who will show up for them, in the faces of people who want to see us all back in the closet.”

The organization also pointed to a 2013 law in California that allowed students to be part of sport teams matching their own gender identity. The American Civil Liberties Union praised the law in 2013 as “ensuring transgender youth have the opportunity to fully participate and succeed in schools across the state.”

Newsom briefly referenced the law in his discussion with Kirk, highlighting that it was passed before he became governor.

Two members of the California state legislature, Assemblymember Chris Ward and state Sen. Caroline Menjivar, released a statement through the California Legislative LGBTQ Caucus criticizing Newsom’s remarks as well, saying they were “profoundly sickened and frustrated” by what he said.

“Sometimes Gavin Newsom goes for the Profile in Courage, sometimes not,” they wrote. “We woke up profoundly sickened and frustrated by these remarks. All students deserve the academic and health benefits of sports activity, and until Donald Trump began obsessing about it, playing on a team consistent with one’s gender has not been a problem since the standard was passed in 2013.”

Newsom’s remarks came just a month after Trump signed an executive order intending on banning transgender athletes from participating in women’s sports. The White House has said the action is meant to protect women in sports from harm and from facing opponents who they say have an unfair advantage.

LGBTQ advocacy groups have criticized the administration’s action and general rhetoric as discriminatory and as having razor-sharp focus on issues of transgender rights to the exclusion of economic and other issues.